can "Change" really happen in our political system?

[Tar Heeled]

so the idea of change seems to be a consensual foundation for the platforms of the dem candidates - especially Obama's. i don't know the platforms fully but, Obama seems to be a moderate liberal that is pushing for non-partisanship and togetherness as a country.

so my question is... is this really feasible? we see glimpses of it after national tragedies i.e. the patriotism we all felt after 9/11; but could we really put party politics aside on a day to day basis, or is this just a lot of political hot air blowing to gain votes?


as for what i think.. i think my generation can handle it. most of all the 18-25 year olds that i talk to generally look at both sides of an issue rather than just being a slave to one party. however, 18-25 year olds don't make up washington, and it's the people that are in the elected positions that ultimately determine how things are ran. a democracy can only take you so far.

[Bent]

"Change" is just a 'Progressive' buzzword. Nothing Obama or Clinton proposes is a break from standard-issue Democratic platform items.

Long story short; neither one intends to change a thing. Obama is quite the orator, but if you read his speeches in plain text (unaided by his "stage presence"), it's just so much fluff.

But people are stupid sheep, thus he has supporters.


So yes, it's hot air...

[MicrowaveWalrus]

i don't see a thing that obama will be changing, except that he's black...

what kind of change are you talking about, by the way? bringing the country together? like...you're looking forward to a ONE party system? i think TWO is bad enough!

[Jredrum]

"Change" is just a 'Progressive' buzzword. Nothing Obama or Clinton proposes is a break from standard-issue Democratic platform items.

Long story short; neither one intends to change a thing. Obama is quite the orator, but if you read his speeches in plain text (unaided by his "stage presence"), it's just so much fluff.

But people are stupid sheep, thus he has supporters.


So yes, it's hot air...

dot

[trev ftw]

we're supposed to be a republic; not a democracy. :mad:

[Hops]

"Change" is just a 'Progressive' buzzword. Nothing Obama or Clinton proposes is a break from standard-issue Democratic platform items.

Long story short; neither one intends to change a thing. Obama is quite the orator, but if you read his speeches in plain text (unaided by his "stage presence"), it's just so much fluff.

But people are stupid sheep, thus he has supporters.


So yes, it's hot air...

Well said. Change is just a word thrown around, and unfortunately it works on too many people.

[YoKramer]

It is possible but not for a very long time. It will take somone to fuck up good enough to make the people realize that something needs to really change.

[Tar Heeled]

It is possible but not for a very long time. It will take somone to fuck up good enough to make the people realize that something needs to really change.

and you don't think the general public believes that Bush is that person?

[kendog]

it has to eventually

[kendog]

technology, education, and knowledge are some things that will make for change. could just be on that tipping point right now, who knows.

[CaseLogic]

not nearly as easy as in the past. Can't just have a revolution these days anymore :o

[bighust]

their delusion will be your reality

[MouthpiecePC]

We'll, let us see here if chage is possible. First of all you have to have a candadate whom wants to change the bs business as usual politics in washington. McCain has stated he has no intention of changing a thing, thus there wont be any changes going to happen if your a republican. Second, Hitlery is elite white trash whom has been stinking up the democratic party during the whole election process, "in business for herself", and not for the democratic party or our country and future. I dont think you will see any change there per the business as usual in washington. Then you have a self made man whom was not born with a silver spoon in his mouth called Obama. Yes Obama = change. Obama is our only chance for change. It will take him more than one term to straiten out the mess republican Bush has created for all of us. Vote for Obama=Change!!!!! :bowdown:Obama!!!!!

[Bent]

We'll, let us see here if chage is possible. First of all you have to have a candadate whom wants to change the bs business as usual politics in washington. McCain has stated he has no intention of changing a thing, thus there wont be any changes going to happen if your a republican. Second, Hitlery is elite white trash whom has been stinking up the democratic party during the whole election process, "in business for herself", and not for the democratic party or our country and future. I dont think you will see any change there per the business as usual in washington. Then you have a self made man whom was not born with a silver spoon in his mouth called Obama. Yes Obama = change. Obama is our only chance for change. It will take him more than one term to straiten out the mess republican Bush has created for all of us. Vote for Obama=Change!!!!! :bowdown:Obama!!!!!
Sheep.


Obama is not change; rather, another "same shit, different day" politician who will dump on family & friends to move ahead.

Obamatards make the Paulites look reasonable and sane.

[MouthpiecePC]

Sheep.


Obama is not change; rather, another "same shit, different day" politician who will dump on family & friends to move ahead.

Obamatards make the Paulites look reasonable and sane.

You are in denial :dunno:

[Bent]

You are in denial :dunno:You worship a smooth-talking Limousine Liberal with a Marxist agenda, and I'm in denial? :rofl:

[MouthpiecePC]

You worship an idiot whom wants to end our countrys chances for a better economy and future. He is only interested in war. I think I will stick with a candadate who cares more about our own country versus someone elses.

[Bent]

You worship an idiot whom wants to end our countrys chances for a better economy and future. He is only interested in war. I think I will stick with a candadate who cares more about our own country versus someone elses.You ASSume I support McCain?

He, Obama, and Clinton contain equal servings of suck. Just in different flavors.


Try again.

[MouthpiecePC]

You ASSume I support McCain?

He, Obama, and Clinton contain equal servings of suck. Just in different flavors.


Try again.

You only have three choices. I was trying to give you the benifit of the doubt that you arent supporting Hitlery. My bad :rolleyes:

[Bent]

You only have three choices. I was trying to give you the benifit of the doubt that you arent supporting Hitlery. My bad :rolleyes:I support neither of the three. They all suck tremendously.

I'll write-in Paul, or go Libertarian. I'm tired of voting for "the one that sucks the least".

Ignore Obama's "charisma", and look at the substance of his speeches...there is none.

It's funny, many of the people who complain about Bush's expansion of government would vote for Obama; a man who promises to make it bigger, accompanied by huge tax and spending increases.
And his call for Imus' firing proves he is a friend to free speech only when it benefits him.

[MouthpiecePC]

No disrespect but I was right earlier. You are obviously in denial. I liked Paul too but he isn't a option now. One of the idiots are going to be elected. You have to select one. I cannot even imaging Hitlery being elected. I will vomitt and hate for many years if that were to happen. If McCain gets elected, I will expect another four years of Bush and fail. I want fresh blood in there. Obama has not been corrupted by the scams and promises to fellow white house pal's. Hitlery is the most corrupted and proffessional scam artist that has ever lived. She is one of the dirtiest people I have ever had the dis-priveledge to know of. Obama is change, Vote Obama :bowdown:

[Bent]

No disrespect but I was right earlier. You are obviously in denial. I liked Paul too but he isn't a option now. One of the idiots are going to be elected. You have to select one. I cannot even imaging Hitlery being elected. I will vomitt and hate for many years if that were to happen. If McCain gets elected, I will expect another four years of Bush and fail. I want fresh blood in there. Obama has not been corrupted by the scams and promises to fellow white house pal's. Hitlery is the most corrupted and proffessional scam artist that has ever lived. She is one of the dirtiest people I have ever had the dis-priveledge to know of. Obama is change, Vote Obama :bowdown:Bullshit. He's far from squeaky-clean, and being an alumnus of "Daley's Machine" means he already owes a lot of favors.

Add to that, he's a corporate bitch.

Change? Notrly.

And no, I do not have to select the warmonger or one of the Marx twins.

[MouthpiecePC]

And no, I do not have to select the warmonger or one of the Marx twins.

That is fine and it means you have no say in this matter. Your voice will not be heard. You dont matter, lol. Leave the voting and politics for us whom will elect the nominee.

On a side note there is one option I see for you. Start up a people party and overthrow the government. I may be down with that to :bigthumb:

[Bent]

That is fine and it means you have no say in this matter. Your voice will not be heard. You dont matter, lol. Leave the voting and politics for us whom will elect the nominee.

On a side note there is one option I see for you. Start up a people party and overthrow the government. I may be down with that to :bigthumb:You didn't respond to the first part of the post. I know why; It's all true, and proves he's no different than any other Elitist Liberal. Raised a rich boy in an exclusive private education system, never worried for a day about making bills or keeping food on the table.

How are ridiculous tax increases supposed to help the working class? When prices of every product increase to keep pace with higher costs, the middle/lower class suffers, while rich boys like him smile all the way to the bank.

Electing him will sell-out the working class; people living paycheck-to-paycheck are already in a squeeze. Higher costs are gonna push many over the edge.

What the fuck are Obamatards thinking?

[MouthpiecePC]

You didn't respond to the first part of the post. I know why; It's all true, and proves he's no different than any other Elitist Liberal. Raised a rich boy in an exclusive private education system, never worried for a day about making bills or keeping food on the table.

How are ridiculous tax increases supposed to help the working class? When prices of every product increase to keep pace with higher costs, the middle/lower class suffers, while rich boys like him smile all the way to the bank.

Electing him will sell-out the working class; people living paycheck-to-paycheck are already in a squeeze. Higher costs are gonna push many over the edge.

What the fuck are Obamatards thinking?

The first part of your last post is only an opinion and not fact. I refuse to answer a question based on opinion. To answer this post is more of the same, opinions. You obviously dont have your facts strait when you say he came from a rich family. He earned his scholorships working his way up the ladder by merit. His last name is not Clinton, Bush, or any of the other spanked baby bottom buts-spoon fed punks last name. He is also a Black man. Obviously another strike in this country. He beat all odds because he positioned himself for an opportunity and now he is taking advantage of it.

Also, I have no idea where you have drawn the conclussion that he is going to hurt the working man. He is advocating for you and me, working men. He is advocating for teachers to start teaching in the classrooms and not by the test. You obviously base your opinions here-say maybe from friends and relatives. I have not heard many facts in this entire debate, lol. Do your self a favor my friend and pay attention to whats going on. Read his books, watch his documentry, pay attention to whats happening in the news including MSNBC, CNN, FOX. If he was a white man Hitlery would be gone by now. For the record, I am White.

This DVD will blow your mind and will absolutely change your whole perception of life period. I guarantee you if you watch it, you will tell everyone you know about it. The name is: Zeit Geist or ZeitGeist. It has nothing to do with Obama. :)

[Bent]

The first part of your last post is only an opinion and not fact. I refuse to answer a question based on opinion. To answer this post is more of the same, opinions. You obviously dont have your facts strait when you say he came from a rich family. He earned his scholorships working his way up the ladder by merit. His last name is not Clinton, Bush, or any of the other spanked baby bottom buts-spoon fed punks last name. He is also a Black man. Obviously another strike in this country. He beat all odds because he positioned himself for an opportunity and now he is taking advantage of it.

Also, I have no idea where you have drawn the conclussion that he is going to hurt the working man. He is advocating for you and me, working men. He is advocating for teachers to start teaching in the classrooms and not by the test. You obviously base your opinions here-say maybe from friends and relatives. I have not heard many facts in this entire debate, lol. Do your self a favor my friend and pay attention to whats going on. Read his books, watch his documentry, pay attention to whats happening in the news including MSNBC, CNN, FOX. If he was a white man Hitlery would be gone by now. For the record, I am White.

This DVD will blow your mind and will absolutely change your whole perception of life period. I guarantee you if you watch it, you will tell everyone you know about it. The name is: Zeit Geist or ZeitGeist. It has nothing to do with Obama. :)
Zeitgeist is a joke. I can destroy a chunk of it without raising a sweat. If you believe that assemblage of crap (with a very mild sprinkling of fact), you're quite gullible.

The 9/11 part, for example, is easily disproven. If it's bullshit (which it is), it should cast doubt on the rest, at least if you think critically.


EDIT; When have higher taxes ever been good for the working class, especially with the economy sliding and the dollar losing value?

Every fucking Liberal has preached "change"...but what the fuck has ever changed?

Lose the man-crush and think with your brain; this guy is no different from any other talking head, with the exception of phenomenal vocal skills.

Only one candidate was truly prepared to "change" things, and the public was too chickenshit to take that route.

[MouthpiecePC]

Ha-ha, I have not personally seen ZeitGeist yet. A friend of mine was telling me about it over the phone. I really listened and absorbed all of the things he said, lol. Even if it isn't all fact, I thought it was interesting.
Do I have a man crash on Obama?, maybe. Let me sum up my position for you based on my opinions. I cannot stand liars, cheaters, scammers, worthless mo-fo's(political bums in office), living high on the hog off of my tax dollars, never working a honest days work in their life. I cannot stand spoon fed bums whom think they are better than the average hard working man just because they were born with the last name of a well known politician(BUM). Because I feel very strong dis-approving of our political system, "worthless bums in office", I have been reluctant to participate in previous elections. Every political figure including the lowest office held to the highest office held make me want to vommit. I hate so bad that if I did not ignore it, I could go insane, mental overload and breakdown, lol. Now I see a self made man whom is talking about change. In my mind change is the single most powerful word that I have been waiting to here all of my life. Change what? First, change the blood line of the person elected to the highest office in our nation. Keep the dirty nast, elite white trash Clintons out of the white house. They have distributed enough of their stank throughout the years. Second, McCains potential election for president will be the same as another term of Bush. Take a look around and decide if you think the Bush era has been a positive for our country. Bush = fail, fail, fail. Are fricking country is in the shit hole, per the world. The bottom line is Bush is a certified self-centered idiot and has done permanent damge to us and our future, (world-wide), all due to his terrible judgements. McCain is even dumber and will lead us to twice the fail. This is the time when we need a new way of thinking. It is going to take more than one term of presidency to reverse the path we are on.

Lets look at the past 20 years. Facts, our country did well under democratic rule. Our country went down the shit hole under republican rule. Are people that naive that they cannot absorb the facts. The republicans base their entire leadership on fear. You cannot resolve other countrys issues when you cannot resolve your own. In other words, clean up your own backyard before you try to clean up someone elses.

[killafornia]

the public is gonna run the repubs out of the white house because theyre sick of them

then theyre going to turn around and run the dems out of congress because theyre even more sick of them

then its not gonna matter who won because its going to be the same old partisan gridlock bullshit

end of story

[surlybot]

not with the current leaders...or even the people running to be the next leaders, no.

[JACK OFF JILL]

Capitalism FTW

[DvBoard]

No disrespect but I was right earlier. You are obviously in denial. I liked Paul too but he isn't a option now. One of the idiots are going to be elected. You have to select one. I cannot even imaging Hitlery being elected. I will vomitt and hate for many years if that were to happen. If McCain gets elected, I will expect another four years of Bush and fail. I want fresh blood in there. Obama has not been corrupted by the scams and promises to fellow white house pal's. Hitlery is the most corrupted and proffessional scam artist that has ever lived. She is one of the dirtiest people I have ever had the dis-priveledge to know of. Obama is change, Vote Obama :bowdown:This kinda thinking is WHY only one of the two parties will ever be selected. Vote who you want to vote for, not who you don't want to win.